Suspension Strength: Maverick R vs. Speed

[sand shark]

I posted on here and RDC that I was talking to two guys from Can Am. One who was some sort of engineer, said that it’s basically and engineered fail point (like the X3 arms) so that the arm would break away and not rip the pivot points out of the chassis.

My smart ass comment back was so you break the arm, and take out the ball joints, shock, the rack. Lol. He’s comment back was those unbolt and are a lot easier to replace vs the whole chassis. I agreed and told him I was just being a smart ass.

The fix as you know Shark is going to be a weld on gusset plate to strengthen that area. In 3 years they will release a new 15% stronger arm.

Shark what do you think the cage tube thickness was? I was thicker than the OG X3 cage. I tried to get a feel of the thickness through those rear beauty bars, it seemed more than .065, but not .083. I don’t know the standards for dual phase materials, so maybe they have an Im between or maybe it’s metric?

I believe the overall thickness is between .075 and .080. That dual phase steal is super hard and eats sawzall blades for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Lol

I still think it will take a big hit to break those arms. A simple weld on gusset will take care of it. If that is the only think that needs to be addressed for the suspension no big deal.

They added a lot to the frame and front section and I don’t think it will cause any need for additional gussets.

 

[sand shark]

That (idiot engineer, in my opinion) should consider that the failure would most likely happen at high speed or impact, and that these cars are not remote controlled drones but have onboard operators; so, the lives of operators in the car should be the first concern.

Anytime I have seen an X3 stock lower arm failure I it was after someone lawn darted or they hit something really hard and it gave out shortly after when the person was going slower.


On the Speed UTV would you rather have the arm give or have it survive and rip out of the front bulkhead tabs? Arm you can replace on the trail or in camp if you have an extra.

 

[The Dude]

That (idiot engineer, in my opinion) should consider that the failure would most likely happen at high speed or impact, and that these cars are not remote controlled drones but have onboard operators; so, the lives of operators in the car should be the first concern.

Biiiiig +1.

 

[PropDr]

I’m not going to question the intelligence of the engineer, he seemed smart to me, and I have no idea what he’s an engineer for? Might be for the plastics or for electrical. Who knows? He never claimed to be the person in charge of the Mav R suspension. The first guy was a parts distribution manager. He’s the one who suspected a rock or something hit the arm. He waved the other guy over who said, like the X3 the arm was designed to have a “fuse” to protect the chassis, and that the breaking point was extremely high, which I assume it would be. Both arms that have broke were not at super high speeds. Atleast the yellow arm was not from what the Rep and the guys at Veys Motorsports who was driving it. They were not even sure what they could have hit to make it break?

Re-read your post.
You should be able to see the problem.
A long time ago Mercedes Benz developed their chassis to destroy themselves around the passengers inside their cars so they could survive.
At the same time all other car manufactures build the chassis of their cars so the car would survive.
MB had a patent for the energy absorbent chassis; they gave it to the world automotive industries for free.
Uncountable lives have been saved by that design.
Now CanAm is telling us that they are building in a 'Fuse' to save a weak chassis?
They are telling us that the car can go over 100mph, but don't worry, if you overstress the chassis doing so, it will be save... for the chassis... so the insurance company only has to pay for your funeral after a suspension component fails at a 100mph... and after all that there will be nothing left of the chassis to reuse anyway... but we attempted to save you costs in repairing the tinfoil chassis we gave you for an exorbitant amount of money...
This is insane!
but as always: jmpo

 

[PropDr]

Anytime I have seen an X3 stock lower arm failure I it was after some lawn darted or they hit something really hard and it gave out shortly after when the person was going slower.


On the Speed UTV would you rather have the arm give or have it survive and rip out of the front bulkhead tabs? Arm you can replace on the trail or in camp if you have an extra.

I tacoed an a-arm on my 2018 RC R within about two weeks after getting it, no lawn dart, roll or hit something really hard in the Oregon dunes, just was having fun.
The X3 has a 'fuse' build in to the lower a-arm; high speed left turn, suspension on the right was compressed and a bump in the sand... it folded up.

 

[pj_hunt]

Re-read your post.
You should be able to see the problem.
A long time ago Mercedes Benz developed their chassis to destroy themselves around the passengers inside their cars so they could survive.
At the same time all other car manufactures build the chassis of their cars so the car would survive.
MB had a patent for the energy absorbent chassis; they gave it to the world automotive industries for free.
Uncountable lives have been saved by that design.
Now CanAm is telling us that they are building in a 'Fuse' to save a weak chassis?
They are telling us that the car can go over 100mph, but don't worry, if you overstress the chassis doing so, it will be save... for the chassis... so the insurance company only has to pay for your funeral after a suspension component fails at a 100mph... and after all that there will be nothing left of the chassis to reuse anyway... but we attempted to save you costs in repairing the tinfoil chassis we gave you for an exorbitant amount of money...
This is insane!
but as always: jmpo

I personally think can-am does that on purpose to save money and keep costs down and let aftermarket companies handle the 10% that drive hard enough to need it. I bet 50% of the users never go over 50mph in anything rough. If they made it as beefy as speed it would probably be 5-10k more expensive and those 50% of users that putt around would be priced out. We all know this roll cage is good enough for a slow roll over just not 100mph. I know many people that have young kids and never push there sxs. They could really get by with a rhino but we all need the latest and greatest, especially when you are making payments. Can-am's target audience is not the same as speeds. Just my opinion.

 

[PropDr]

I personally think can-am does that on purpose to save money and keep costs down and let aftermarket companies handle the 10% that drive hard enough to need it. I bet 50% of the users never go over 50mph in anything rough. If they made it as beefy as speed it would probably be 5-10k more expensive and those 50% of users that putt around would be priced out. We all know this roll cage is good enough for a slow roll over just not 100mph. I know many people that have young kids and never push there sxs. They could really get by with a rhino but we all need the latest and greatest, especially when you are making payments. Can-am's target audience is not the same as speeds. Just my opinion.

I understand, but it is not right.
Again: jmpo

 

[sand shark]

I tacoed an a-arm on my 2018 RC R within about two weeks after getting it, no lawn dart, roll or hit something really hard in the Oregon dunes, just was having fun.
The X3 has a 'fuse' build in to the lower a-arm; high speed left turn, suspension on the right was compressed and a bump in the sand... it folded up.

Guess you were the lucky one and hit it at the angle that bent the arm. I drove my 2018 for over 700 miles in the dunes before I had a friend weld the taco kit on my lower arms. Never folded the arm and the front end took plenty of hard hits. I have friends that still have stock arms with thousands of dune/desert miles and never bent the lower arm. They have rolled their cars too. LOL!

We shall see how the arms hold up on the Maverick R. Camp RZR weekend in Glamis will be the first test weekend for those that have purchased them.

Hopefully there are some Speed UTVs rolling around in Glamis that weekend too.

 

[SEN]

Not sure how those people managed to break the lower arm on the Maverick R. It is an odd place to break.

Here are some pictures I snapped of the arms at the Sand Show.

They look pretty stout in person.

Not sure if you tapped on the arms or any of the other suspension parts of the R but they sounded like a tinfoil casting.
I would never buy something with that cheap sound. Definitely scary to have those on a SXS or anything else going over 20mph!

 

[sand shark]

Not sure if you tapped on the arms or any of the other suspension parts of the R but they sounded like a tinfoil casting.
I would never buy something with that cheap sound. Definitely scary to have those on a SXS or anything else going over 20mph!

Well i guess I am not scared and would drive it. LOL! Yes I did tap on them and describing them as tinfoil is a little melodramatic.

I have seen HCR boxed arms break and those are supposed to be super strong. They broke in the dunes and there was no crash involved. Just hard driving. The did replace the arms under warranty.

 

[SEN]

Well i guess I am not scared and would drive it. LOL! Yes I did tap on them and describing them as tinfoil is a little melodramatic.

I have seen HCR boxed arms break and those are supposed to be super strong. They broke in the dunes and there was no crash involved. Just hard driving. The did replace the arms under warranty.

Not melodramatic one bit.... More like I'm calling it out as I see it. The upper arm sounded worse than the lower arm. For what Can Am is pricing these at they sure are not giving you something of equal quality. Of course the aftermarket will make new ones much better and stronger. I did over hear at the show that upper a arm design is going to be changed by the aftermarket.

 

[sand shark]

Not melodramatic one bit.... More like I'm calling it out as I see it. The upper arm sounded worse than the lower arm. For what Can Am is pricing these at they sure are not giving you something of equal quality. Of course the aftermarket will make new ones much better and stronger. I did over hear at the show that upper a arm design is going to be changed by the aftermarket.

Aftermarket will always be there to improve. That lower arm can be addressed with a simple weld on gusset. Be interesting to see what the aftermarket comes up with for the upper arm that will maintain the stock geometry.

You compare the models across the board with the competitors models and the price points are all pretty close. That DCT transmission it comes with and all the other features you are getting a lot of car. If you don't want all the features they have a base model that still gives you the DCT transmission and the price point is much less.

Coyne Motorsports at the sand show offered to sell my friend a Maverick R top model for $1,500 under MSRP and no set up or freight charges. With the higher price points there will be deals to be made.

 

[SEN]

Aftermarket will always be there to improve. That lower arm can be addressed with a simple weld on gusset. Be interesting to see what the aftermarket comes up with for the upper arm that will maintain the stock geometry.

You compare the models across the board with the competitors models and the price points are all pretty close. That DCT transmission it comes with and all the other features you are getting a lot of car. If you don't want all the features they have a base model that still gives you the DCT transmission and the price point is much less.

Coyne Motorsports at the sand show offered to sell my friend a Maverick R top model for $1,500 under MSRP and no set up or freight charges. With the higher price points there will be deals to be made.

So they're already trying to go e them away!
Jk but that is surprising that they'd already deal that well. So why did he not buy?

 

[sand shark]

So they're already trying to go e them away!
Jk but that is surprising that they'd already deal that well. So why did he not buy?

He already has a deposit on one with his local dealer and he is friends with the people there. He will get the same deal from his dealer. If he did not have a deposit down and one coming by the middle of October he would of snatched up that deal. Coyne said they would have it by November.

Interestingly Coyne is getting 27 of those early Speed UTVs. I asked the sales guy if they were all going to customers that ordered through them and he said half were and the rest will be up for sale. Don't know if that is true and as I thought RG was getting the direct customer cars delivered first.

 

[SEN]

He already has a deposit on one with his local dealer and he is friends with the people there. He will get the same deal from his dealer. If he did not have a deposit down and one coming by the middle of October he would of snatched up that deal. Coyne said they would have it by November.

Interestingly Coyne is getting 27 of those early Speed UTVs. I asked the sales guy if they were all going to customers that ordered through them and he said half were and the rest will be up for sale. Don't know if that is true and as I thought RG was getting the direct customer cars delivered first.

Ok that makes sense why he didn't buy it at the show.
Yes SPEED is delivering Customer direct preorders first but from what I have heard and understand Coyne bought pre-orders as any other customers did so Coyne should be receiving those first batch of cars inline just like the rest of us.

 

[gonzalez.michael1]

Ok that makes sense why he didn't buy it at the show.
Yes SPEED is delivering Customer direct preorders first but from what I have heard and understand Coyne bought pre-orders as any other customers did so Coyne should be receiving those first batch of cars inline just like the rest of us.

Correct, Coyne placed pre-order deposits to get in line with the direct-to-customer cars.

 

[The Dude]

Interestingly Coyne is getting 27 of those early Speed UTVs. I asked the sales guy if they were all going to customers that ordered through them and he said half were and the rest will be up for sale. Don't know if that is true and as I thought RG was getting the direct customer cars delivered first.

Shark: it is easy to confuse direct orders placed by a dealer (where a deposit was paid by the dealer) versus a dealer floor inventory request (where no deposit has been paid). If a dealer paid a deposit, then it is exactly the same as an average joe like me paying a deposit directly to Speed. And there are also direct orders where a customer paid the deposit through a dealer. All three of those scenarios are "direct orders" and master numbers have been issued. Those are the orders that will be filled before any dealer floor inventory requests will be filled. The dealer floor inventory requests are merely requests from dealers saying "put me down for x number of floor inventory models once they become available" without paying a deposit. As I understand it, Speed has received around 4000 direct orders and around 14,000 dealer floor inventory requests. I know it sounds confusing. Here is a summary:

DIRECT ORDERS (AROUND 4000)
Customer paid deposit directly to Speed
Customer paid deposit through a dealer which forwards the deposit to Speed
Dealer pays deposit out of their own pocket (like Coyne did, as well as some other dealers)

DEALER FLOOR INVENTORY REQUESTS (AROUND 14,000)
Dealer submitted a request to Speed for floor models to sell (no deposit paid)

I hope that info helps. And please don't quote me on the 4000/14,000 numbers as I do not know what the exact numbers are.

 

[Grandpa H]

Shark: it is easy to confuse direct orders placed by a dealer (where a deposit was paid by the dealer) versus a dealer floor inventory request (where no deposit has been paid). If a dealer paid a deposit, then it is exactly the same as an average joe like me paying a deposit directly to Speed. And there are also direct orders where a customer paid the deposit through a dealer. All three of those scenarios are "direct orders" and master numbers have been issued. Those are the orders that will be filled before any dealer floor inventory requests will be filled. The dealer floor inventory requests are merely requests from dealers saying "put me down for x number of floor inventory models once they become available" without paying a deposit. As I understand it, Speed has received around 4000 direct orders and around 14,000 dealer floor inventory requests. I know it sounds confusing. Here is a summary:

DIRECT ORDERS (AROUND 4000)
Customer paid deposit directly to Speed
Customer paid deposit through a dealer which forwards the deposit to Speed
Dealer pays deposit out of their own pocket (like Coyne did, as well as some other dealers)

DEALER FLOOR INVENTORY REQUESTS (AROUND 14,000)
Dealer submitted a request to Speed for floor models to sell (no deposit paid)

I hope that info helps. And please don't quote me on the 4000/14,000 numbers as I do not know what the exact numbers are.

Hey 1 question, a friend put a $500 dollar deposit at a local dealer FunBike Center in San Diego. In your opinion where does he fall in place, he didn’t put the full deposit so is I line for a floor unit or should he been given a MO#

 

[The Dude]

Hey 1 question, a friend put a $500 dollar deposit at a local dealer FunBike Center in San Diego. In your opinion where does he fall in place, he didn’t put the full deposit so is I line for a floor unit or should he been given a MO#

Good question! And I don't know what the answer is. My guess (and that's all it is.....a total guess) is that he gave that dealer $500 to be one of the first guys in line for one of the dealer floor inventory cars. Either that, or perhaps that dealer paid a full deposit (out of the dealer's pocket) to Speed like Coyne did, and your friend gave $500 to the dealer to have first dibs on the car when it comes in. Those are the only two scenarios I can think of. I'm wondering if your friend might have more info as I would think (hope?) that he discussed the arrangement with that dealer.

 

[Grandpa H]

Good question! And I don't know what the answer is. My guess (and that's all it is.....a total guess) is that he gave that dealer $500 to be one of the first guys in line for one of the dealer floor inventory cars. Either that, or perhaps that dealer paid a full deposit (out of the dealer's pocket) to Speed like Coyne did, and your friend gave $500 to the dealer to have first dibs on the car when it comes in. Those are the only two scenarios I can think of. I'm wondering if your friend might have more info as I would think (hope?) that he discussed the arrangement with that dealer.

I haven’t seen him since I retired, I’ll try and get in touch with him.